Q&A Session

0:50Since we're in the book of Revelation, and there's certainly Revelation has its questions, and quite frequently a number of questions come up about Revelation as we're going through it. So I thought now that we're in between chapter 3, chapter 4, and kind of a good place, it'd be a good time to answer some of those questions. So questions, but they don't have to be about Revelation. They can be about something else, really about anything. And so what time we have left, I'll answer. Answer some of the questions. I'll take some if we, whatever time we have.

1:38Don't expect them to be very well thought out, though, if I just take it off the floor. First question: Is heaven a square? No, but there's a lot of squares that go there. No. I think the question has in mind the description in Revelation chapter 21, Revelation 21, and a kind of a, and it's really not heaven so much as it is the new Jerusalem coming down. Is the, is heaven square, is the new city of Jerusalem, where we think of it as a large cube. And let me just read to you what text says and interact with it in Revelation 21, 9.

2:41Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb. And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven. From God, having the glory of God, her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal clear jasper. It had a great and high wall with twelve gates. At the gates, twelve angels, and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. There were three gates on the east, three gates on the north, and three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Then in verse 15, the one who spoke with me had a gold measuring rod to measure the city, and its gates, and its wall. The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width. Length, width, same. And he measured the city with the rod 1,500 miles. Its length and width and height are equal. So describing a cube, 1,500-mile cube. And he measured its wall, 72 yards. He goes on. Material of the wall, jasper, like we looked at this morning, probably diamond. So you have a measurement here. I think it's Greek, it's 12,000 stadia. And you take that. and it comes out to about 1,500 miles. So what do we do with this? And really, it seems to be clear to me that there's something being revealed about the new Jerusalem. And it's God who came up with the gold measuring rod, wanted to measure the city and to give us some kind of an idea, some kind of a framework, a perspective to understand this new Jerusalem. And so he goes out and measuring. So he wants to give us measurements, gives us earthly measurements, gives us some dimensions of the new Jerusalem is 1,500 miles, length, width, height, or equal. So, yes, I think there's something being communicated here, and a plain, simple rendering leads to a city with these dimensions. Now, how to think about this, just to get this scale in your mind. And I actually had these images, so I don't have images for all my questions, but I do have images for these because I think I've taught on this in places before. But 1,500 miles. Let's just get an idea of what 1,500 miles looks like. If you had a map of the United States, you can see 1,500 miles square takes up quite a bit of space.

6:01And of course, you know, it's right over Texas. You would expect when it comes down, just kidding. But you get an idea. That's a pretty large square. And so think about this. An airplane flies somewhere around 34,000 feet in the air. You can see Mount Denali there, about 20,000 feet. Well, that equates to about six miles. So think about now 1,500 miles high, a cube, 1,500 miles high. So you get something that if you put it on a globe right around the same place, Texas, that's what the city dimension looks like.

6:56It is large, but you think about, but it's not, it's something that we can get our minds around. 1,500 miles, I think we've driven 1,500 miles, we can kind of get an idea that's large. And you think about, I've been told that all the population of the world could fit in Texas. Seems like on University Drive. If you ever drive there, it feels like they're all there. But yes, you. You can think about the population of this holy city, humanity. It is something to get your mind around or something to relate to. It is something conceivable. And I think one of the things for giving us something so specific like this in Revelation is to get our minds to relate to it. I think a lot of us think about heaven as something that is just so otherworldly that we can't get our minds around it, that there is no relationship to our current existence, and we get into this dreamy, otherworldly type understanding of heaven. You know, I think one of the mistakes that the Jews made at Christ's first advent was that they had such an earthly mindset, such an earthly kingdom mindset, that they failed to recognize the spiritual aspect of that kingdom, that dominion of God, that it is a place. He resides in the heart of his people. He is going to be married to them in a very holy, unbroken way.

9:01But we can go to the other extreme and make our understanding of heaven so unworldly that we can't even relate to it. And so I think that Revelation gives us some dimensions. And you've been around me long enough, you know, I kind of tend to take the plain language of the text and follow it. And there's a measuring rod. And if it doesn't mean a literal stadia, and it isn't a literal measurement, I don't know what to relate it to. Then it becomes anybody's guess. What is this symbol? What is it? Well, anybody can then start filling it in. And I have no authority, and neither does anybody else, really, for that matter, to start saying what this is. So you have that. And so, yes, the new Jerusalem. So, yes. Now, to give you a picture, if you use the material, the diamond or whatever, somebody has come up with a graphic of what that city would look like, or just a cube, just the cube aspect of it. But I don't see anything necessary that says, okay, we can't think of it in, okay, you have spires, the space, the airspace. The spires and everything. I don't know if we have to say it has to be actually hard, fast, perfectly dimensioned cubed. Maybe there's some spires, maybe the walls, maybe it is, maybe it is. But I think there's some leeway in there to say, you know, it is a city. It has walls. They are laid out, and it is, but this is what he sees coming down. And you'd expect it to come down if it's that big and big, because it isn't going to be building up that way. But this is what the angel comes and says, John, come, let me show you the bride of the Lamb. It is a holy city.

11:15And so, thoughts on that? So I'd say, yeah, it intends to communicate something about heaven. And there's plenty of room there if you lay out the mench, especially going up. It's a city. And now you think about, but there's a big universe out there. And new heavens and a new earth. And this is after the new heavens and the new earth. And then you have this holy city coming down. And there's a universe out there that is part of the whole heavenly realm.

12:00The New Jerusalem. And so, questions, thoughts? Yes, sir. So, is there, to your knowledge, any indication? I know the periodic tables based on description, they're going to be more or less the same, but whether or not the new earth is going to mirror a return one or going to be completely revolutionarily different than this one and the evil? That's a good question. Is the earth going to be revolutionarily different? Well, there's not going to be sin, obviously. But you think about when God created the heavens and the earth the first time, there was no sin. There was a garden, there was a place where man was, where he created man to bear his image. It's like all of creation itself, in the first few chapters of Genesis, is about creating an environment for the image-bearer of God. All of that goes to, has an end goal in mind that God is going to manifest himself, and the God who cannot see is going to image himself in humanity. I don't know why we would think of it as revolutionarily so different that. Unrelatable in the new heavens and the new earth. He's going to make all things new in eternal bloom. Adam and Eve were in a garden. They walked with God. And so that would be, I don't think he's scrapped the idea of man bearing his image and exercising dominion. And really, I think even in the garden, then we can get into another layer of theology about this, but I think that Adam and Eve could have been confirmed in holiness without sin, without taking, you know, we can get into the, okay, was the fall necessary and all that, but God gave them, put them in the garden, put them in a place, gave them the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And had they chose not to partake of it, I believe that God would have confirmed them in holiness, in which case, there they are in a world, and they are to go and subdue.

14:39I don't think the whole world was as tame as the Garden of Eden. I think part of them exercising dominion would have been for future generations to go and to subdue, make everything like the Garden of Eden. That's part of the exercising the dominion image. Of God. So I don't I don't yes, I mean I would say yes, I I'm not gonna reduce it completely to what we've known and that there's not other, but I wouldn't so detach it that that it there's gonna be something completely unrelatable to what we've ever experienced. I think there'll be without sin and I I think man will still exercise dominion. Yes, sir. Yeah, you know, as part of that thought, you know, what will the earth be like in the in the eternal state? There's uh in chapter 22 it goes on to talk about that there will be no night. That's right. Right. Either the earth isn't revolving anymore, which is possible, or or it says that they will have no need of the the light from the sun because God is the light. So perhaps the earth is still revolving and the light is coming from different directions because God is their light with the image of the earth with a big heavy cube on it, you know, engineers with the fact that, well, that's out of the place. That's not going to be a light.

16:06So so it could be that maybe the earth isn't revolving, but it's rotating. But we just don't know. Yeah, so there is interesting that there's no night. Yeah. Very good. Very good, yeah. So yeah, obviously there's some elements of it that we haven't conceived of, gotten our mind. It's going to be something completely new, but it's going to be brand new and it's going to be eternally new. That's what I love about it. But that. Okay.

16:38Next question. Did John write or compile Revelation all at once or in stages? So when Revelation came, did it all come at once or did it happen in stages and in segments, interrupted different periods of time? Personally, I think it all came at once. And it's interesting this morning in Revelation 4. Let me move on from that image. But in Revelation 4, 1, 2, let me see. We're in this transition. In chapters 2 and 3, it's all about the churches, the epistles to the churches that Jesus dictated. Then in 4:1, after these things, I looked and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things. Verse 2 is what I want you to get. Immediately I was In the spirit, and behold, a throne was standing in heaven. Now, if you turn back to page 110, you remember, I mean, Revelation 1:10, if you remember what was taking place, John, he says, I'm on the island of Patmos because of the word of the God and the testimony of Jesus in verse 9, verse 10, I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet saying, Write in a book what you see, send it to the seven churches. And so, what is this, what happens here? And some would try to point out here and say, Well, he was in the Spirit on 1:10. He's on the Lord's Day, he's there in the Spirit on 110, and then he hears this sound of this voice, like a trumpet. And he writes, You're going to write these things, you're going to write the things which you have seen, the things which are, and the things which will take place. It's the whole organization of the book of Revelation based on verse 19. Things which he had seen, things which are, which include the messages to the seven churches. Then, after he finishes the seven churches, he finishes the thought, and then he who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. It seems to be a pause. There. And then, after these things, I looked and behold, and that's where he is again, immediately in the Spirit. So, what took place? And it really depends on largely how one approaches the whole book of Revelation.

19:52Some would take that statement as okay, he received the letters and he wrote them all down, he sent them out, and some time lapsed. And then he comes back and says, Okay, here, after these things, I've got another insight. I don't think that fits very well with Jesus dictating right there. This vision comes, write down the things which you have seen, the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things. And chapter 4, verse 1 says, After these things, moving on in the narrative. But then it says in verse 2, immediately I was in the spirit. And so there seems to be a very language that moves very quickly, immediately in the spirit. So it seems like between that moment, between the chapters 3 and 4, that John is thinking, and then all of a Sudden, he gets caught up again in another vision, in another in the Spirit, and taken up into heaven through the door. And so, I think that all of this fits very well in a time frame, that it all comes at once, epic, and that he writes it all down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, calling to mind memory.

21:27The purpose is for this to be written, the purpose of it is to be for the churches, and so I don't think he wrote it all in different stages, years lapsed in between, and so, but and I don't think the language goes there. But question on that? It's a lot, but do it. Okay, another question, unless somebody has one. We've got one more that deals: how do the key prophecies of Daniel relate to Revelation? There's a lot of key prophecies in Daniel. I would like to, and I'm thinking largely in chapters 2, chapter 7, and chapter 8. 9 but I will just limit our conversation tonight, just quickly about chapter 2.

22:42Chapter 2, Daniel, chapter 2. If you remember what's happening in Daniel chapter 2, Nebuchadnezzar is having dreams, and he's wanting to, he's got this dream that troubles him. He wants an interpretation. He asks for his counselors, his magicians, to come give him an interpretation of the dream. And you know the account. He says, they tell him, well, Nebuchadnezzar, tell us the dream. We'll give you the interpretation. He goes, I ain't going down that road with you guys. You tell me the dream. If you really have the spirit of the gods in you, you tell me the dream and its interpretation. And of course, they're like, nobody can do that. That's impossible.

23:37But Daniel, lo and behold, God uses Daniel, raises Daniel up, and he is going to declare the vision to him. And so Daniel, it was revealed to Daniel, the vision, it's the vision of the statue. In chapter 2, in verse 20, Daniel said, Let the name of God be blessed forever and ever, for wisdom and power belong to him. It is he who changes the times and the epics, he who removes kings and establishes kings. He's the one who reveals the profound and hidden things. And so it's with this information that Daniel then goes to Nebuchadnezzar, and he tells Nebuchadnezzar, what you've asked, nobody can do. Nobody can give you what you've asked. Except there is a God in heaven, Nebuchadnezzar, and you need to know who he is. There is a God in heaven, and he's the one who reveals mysteries. And he has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will take place in the latter days. The expression is literally at the end of the days. He has made it known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will happen at the end of the days. And then he says, Here's your dream. You, O king. So you think about this dream. It's something about the end of the days, the latter days, and God is revealing something to Nebuchadnezzar. And really, much of Daniel is written in Hebrew. And a large portion of it is written in Aramaic. Now, if you're writing in Hebrew, who's your audience? Jews. If you're writing in Aramaic, the Gentiles. Yes. And so this is written in Aramaic for the nations. And so you, O king, were looking, verse 31, and behold, there was a single great statue. That statue, which was large and of extraordinary splendor, was standing in front of you, and its appearance was awesome. The head of that statue was made of fine gold, its breast and arms silver, its belly and thighs bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on the feet of iron and clay and crushed them. Then the iron and the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floor, and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found.

26:48But that stone that the statue that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth. And so I had this image. They were the iron, the clay, bronze was struck at the same time. You get the stone cut without hands, and you see this great statue, head of gold, arms of silver and bronze. See all that. And the stone hits the statue on the feet. And so, what happens? Just by looking at this detail, what happens where the stone hits is significant. It doesn't hit. And he goes on, and he tells Nebuchadnezzar what this is. These are empires, these are kingdoms and empires. Notice that the stone doesn't hit the head. He tells them, you are the gold head. I think Nebuchadnezzar liked that. That's why in the next chapters you see this golden image built up in fiery furnace. Hey, I like that idea. I like that.

28:16And so let's make a statue and make people worship it. But where it hits, it doesn't hit in the different kingdoms. It hits at the very final expression, lower to the earth, the feet. But what is left after this stone hits? What happens to the rest of the statue? Gone. Not a trace of them is found. These kingdoms. And he's already told us Babylon. He's told us, as you go down, Babylon, Media, Persia, the Grecian Empire, you have the Roman Empire.

29:06Could you say today that there's not a trace of them found? Not at all. We live in a Greco-Roman world. Our architecture around here, even our little columns out in front of our old chapel, that's Greco-Roman. To say that there's not a trace is, this would be super hyperbole. Our laws are based on, English common law is based on Roman law. You just go back. This event has not happened. Or the thought is, okay, well, then it becomes a great mountain. This is a long duration of time. But it seems the language here, it strikes, and then very quickly, This statue, the traces are all gone.

30:05He goes on to in verse 44, he says, In the days of those kings, what are the those kings? There's some, it hits in the feet. He's talked about feet, and then he's talked about in the days of those kings, heaven will, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it itself will endure forever. Insomuch, as you saw, a stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and it crushed the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, the gold. The great God has made known to the king what will take place in the future so that the dream is true and its interpretation is worthy, is trustworthy. So at the end of the days.

31:06So, where do I put that? How do I relate this to what's going on in Revelation? Well, in Revelation, you've got a tribulation, as I said, chapters 6 through 18. It's the seals, the seals being open. You have, I put that, the stone crushing coming with the. Lord's return, and so that's how I would relate it. I mean, yeah, if you want to put it at the somewhere in the tribulation, okay, but somewhere in that period, what I would say is that stone is not his first advent, it is his second advent. And then you have these phases of eternity, as I call them. You have the thousand years, and then you have the eternal state. And so that's where I would relate the key prophecy, the statue prophecy of Daniel 2 to Revelation. And so, and it's during that thousand years, as we've kind of already looked at, Jesus has promised that his disciples will sit on 12 thrones, judging the tribes of Israel. He has already mentioned that the overcomers and the churches of Asia Minor are going to be part of sharing that rod, that throne with him and that rod of iron that breaks into pieces the nations. And what are the nations, the unions, the ungodly, unholy unions? And so, during that period, it seems very plausible and just a straightforward understanding of what I believe is plain is that.

33:01That God's people play a role in the breaking down of the nations, however, that plays out. And that that's going to become the big mountain that fills the earth. Let me relate another one and then open it up to questions. Daniel chapter 7 is another one, and this is a vision of four beasts. But I think it's saying very much, giving more detail of these different empires. I think it's another way of relating and giving some more truths and relating more information in that the statue itself relates one aspect, but then there's this vision of the four beasts. And I don't have a cool graphic about this final beast. I just had that other one.

34:16But you have, in he sees these four beasts, there's this, he sees a lion, then he sees a bear, and then he sees a leopard. All these kind of fit some kind of zoo animal, okay, you get that. And then he sees this fourth beast, and he describes it in verse 7 as a dreadful, terrifying, extremely strong. It had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed, trampled down the remainder with its feet, and it was different from all the other beasts that were before it. It had ten horns. While I was contemplating it, another little horn comes up, and he goes on, and it's a very strange-looking animal. And then he keeps looking until thrones were set up, and the ancient of days took his seat. His vesture was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames. Its wheels were burning, a river of fire coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands were attending him, and myriads and myriads were standing before him. And the court sat, and the books were opened.

35:30And then in verse 13, he says, I kept looking. Because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking, I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given. I'm sorry. Reading verse. Verse 13, I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven, one like a son of man was coming, and he came up to the Ancient of days and was presented before him, and to him was given dominion, glory, and a kingdom that all the peoples, nations, and men of every language might serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion which will not pass away, and his kingdom is one which will not be destroyed. So he sees this vision, the sun coming up in the clouds, and he is presented before the ancient of days who's taken his seat. And there he is. And he receives. He's presented before him, and to him was given dominion. When you look at what we're doing in Revelation 4 and 5, what's happening? Thrones, chapter 4, the throne set up. And in chapter 5, the Lamb is going to appear. And the Lamb is going to receive the scroll. And he's going to go through and he's going to open up its seals. And so I think there's, I relate this event to what's happening here. And these great beasts, he goes on to interpret it. These great beasts, which are four in number, will arise from the earth, but the saints of the highest one will receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever. For all ages to come. So when the saints take it, it's theirs forever for all ages to come, hereafter.

37:41And so, then he goes on in verses 26 and 27, speaking about the sovereignty of this. The court will sit for judgment and his dominion. This is speaking about that fourth beast, that little horn that is different, wearing down the saints of the highest one. But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated, and destroyed forever. What does that sound like? Taken away, annihilated, destroyed forever? Sounds again like not a trace, something very similar to what's been said already.

38:34Then the sovereignty, the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the highest one. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey him. So, as I again put these two phases here, and I'm relating it, I recognize. It to the very same place that somewhere, and you could argue that, okay, well, maybe in Revelation 4 and Revelation 5, you have the presentation of the Son coming and receiving the kingdom, and then you've got the breaking of the seals.

39:23So, somewhere in the tribute, but I would put it there at the end. I think Daniel 7 best fits there. And largely because afterwards, there isn't a trace. There isn't a trace of these kingdoms. There's annihilated, destroyed forever. The saints possess. And then we go into this thousand-year period of what I call the two phases of eternity. You have the thousand-year period, and then the little lines in there is what I call the blip. Satan is released, and then you have the great white throne judgment, where Satan is going to be banished forever, and you enter into the eternal state, and that's when the new heavens and the new earth take place. But to answer the question, I put the key prophecies there. I think it's more description about what takes place at the end of the days.

40:21That's how I put it all together. But questions, thoughts? Well, okay, I'm not trying to really indicate much, except that this is what I would call the phase of eternity, two phases here, and just, yeah, you could put that line right there, but yeah, you can get all your rapture systems there, what's going on with judgment and stuff like that. But just for simplicity, yeah, I'm not including the tribulation in the phases of eternity. So thank you. In the back.

41:08Okay, you may have explained this before, but as we get closer to 8-1, I'm getting a little bit nervous. It's the seventh seal, and I'm wondering where the first fruit of women will be. 8-1, okay. This is a Maryland question. I can feel it already. When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about a half an hour. Where are the women? I've learned there's some questions that you don't respond to, because no matter what you say, you get in trouble. I think this is one of those.

41:55Well, other thoughts, questions? Yes, in the back. Um I have two questions. One uh is uh go to the other. Uh who is the ancient of days? Well, I think that's a depiction of the Heavenly Father. Okay, and then how do we square that with John one eighteen, where it says, uh, no one has seen God at any time, but the Son has explained it and wasn't the boss of the gospel. Well, I think uh that certainly well uh how do we explain that? Um how do we explain that as oh no one's seeing God at any time? Yeah, well he yeah he certainly hasn't intimately intimately entered into a relationship with the Heavenly Father in a full disclosure kind of way. Yeah, he's seeing an image, he's seeing a vision, and so I think seeing a vision of heaven or the Holy One, the ancient of days, depicted there, is different than actually seeing him.

43:09And so Jesus, who is with the Father, one with, has dwelt with him. And so no one has ascended into heaven. Only one can explain God, and that's the one who is intimately acquainted with him, and that is Christ who has descended. And I think that's the That God took upon flesh and dwelt among us. But I think a vision with the ancient today's there doesn't negate or even create a difficulty. A vision is a vision. It is not it'd be different if it said no one has seen God in any way at all, shape or form, or vision or otherwise.

43:56I think that might so I wouldn't I wouldn't take that as an internal problem at all. But what's your second question? Oh, okay. Okay. Other thoughts, questions? Doesn't have to be Revelation? Doesn't it have to be about the Bible? It could be about what we're doing as a church. Whatever you want. Any questions about what we're doing as a church? Any any kind of questions? We've got a I'll take a couple more if somebody wants to say something or if one of the elders feels like something needs to be said or anything?

44:42Yes, sir. I know since coming here, you've spent a lot of time with the second millennium and all of all of that, but do you think generally speaking is the first person to offer another radicalism? Does a person's view of the rapture impact their theology? Well, what's the importance of having a right view of these things? Well, I think one thing the scripture makes very clear, it's the that it's happening that is very important, and that you're ready for it. He could have said, Okay, by the way, March 14th, year 2000, blah, blah, I'm coming.

45:46He doesn't give us that kind of information. He says, I'm coming, be ready. Coming, be ready. So it's not so much the reality of when, but the that. That you are living in the light of the reality of his coming and when that may be, and that any moment you could stand before his. And I think that's very important for the Christian. The imminency of you standing before God, whether that happens by rapture or whether that happens by you stepping into eternity through death.

46:26But I think it's important to So, I think that that is what is important. And then, yes, I think as you think through Scripture, the second thing that's very important about your eschatology or view of the end times is really your approach to Scripture. And I think this is what the Reformers taught us. You know, you follow the plain meaning of Scripture unless there's some real reason in the text that tells you not to do so. And so, just like with the creation account, one reason why young earth creationism isn't going to go away is because a plain, simple reading of the text takes you there. One of the reasons why premillennial, maybe not so much the rapture, I can see some variation in the rapture systems, but these systems aren't just going to go away because a plain meaning of scripture is going to take us there. And so, it's going to have to be, but yeah, I think it's very important for us to approach, to learn how to approach the scripture in a consistent way so that it speaks to us. And so, I think your view of the end times may betray more of your approach to scripture than you might think.

47:58And are you approaching it? In a way that it can speak and inform you and then how we live in light of that. So, yeah, be ready, that that is important, and your approach, so that you can be instructed and not develop the system grids of men. Even if they're good systems, we still want to hold our system in suspect and not the plain meaning of scripture. Russell, did you have a question? Or sorry, go ahead. Would Jesus identify himself as the Son of Man be considered blasphemous by Jews of his time in the same way that he said that, you know, used I am in Jewish stuff? Well, certainly some Jews considered it blasphemous because the high priest tore his clothes and said, What more do we need? Let's crucify him. And the trial was over. So certainly, but they knew exactly what he was saying. When he was referring, you will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds. They knew exactly what he was saying. So yeah, I think he, but I don't think it was blasphemous to anybody. Question over here? Am I correct for thinking that when it talks about the great day of the Lord, it's not so much a 24-hour period of day, but it's making an F-O.

49:30How long the hepat will be and where in your timeline do we think that's going to be taking place somewhere during the term of the tribulation or more like right at the end before the thousand year reigns fall? Well, I think you've got two well, you've got the great day of the Lord. The the day of the Lord is a time of judgment, a period of judgment. And the great day, probably that final Armageddon there at before the millennium. But you also have another event where Satan is released a thousand years later. So you have another Armageddon type event where Satan deceives the nations. And so certainly the Great Day, I've seen good people end on either one of those two, usually at the very end of the tribulation period or at the very end of the thousand years when Satan is released. And there are two big events there.

50:33I would say ultimately when the Great Day is going to be, there's a great day coming, Armageddon, but there is also the final great white throne judgment. And so I think either one of those or both. And I've seen good minds on both of those. Russell, did you have a question? Or did was it asked? No, I was There are another Bible questions and it's not premature. You can maybe discuss while we've been thinking about the idea of giving back around about the fellowship hall about modifying that and adding that.

51:15Where's Matt? Oh, okay. Well, what do what what do we say about that? What do we say about the fellowship hall expansion? We know we need it. We need it and we're still trying to figure it out in terms of how to remodel what it was. But the the best way to do that is so we're still working with a committee that architect and trying to solve a couple of some engineering problems. Yeah, there's some real challenges there with and so we have been certainly working with I know Matt and Kim have been working with architect and coming up with designs and plans. And by the way, anybody, if you have some thoughts, you know, please feel free to corner Matt and share them. And but some of our challenges, it gets used so much. I mean, there's hardly a day where that fellowship hall isn't used and trying to figure out a time to where we could shut it down because most we would like to tear it down and rebuild it, but But we can't be two years without the use of it. And so we're looking at expanding in different directions and try to make it as painless as possible and then close it down, hopefully, maybe during the summer and get it as much done as we can. But we've got VBA, we've got it's full through the summer, too. So those are some of the challenges that we're trying to work around. But we know we need it, but I'm glad to see it being used. And I'm thankful that the church is used as much as it is. In fact, I hope that we will all have an approach to taking care of the facility, but also using it like an old shoe. I think the building needs to be used up. It's not eternal. We are. And so pouring ourselves into using the facility to proclaim the gospel and can continue bringing people in to him is what these tools are all about. So we expect to see them get a little wear and tear, and we want it used.

53:47Well, let me go ahead and close this. I know there's more thoughts out there, and I know we didn't answer all the questions. It may have even raised more questions in the process of answering the ones I did. But thank you all. Thank you. Regardless, you don't have to agree with me on everywhere I land. I hope by now you realize I do seek to be honest with the Scripture, even honest with myself, as I am trying to understand the text and where it's going. And I'm not afraid to go where it goes. I know the God of the text. I'm not afraid if I have to reshape. In fact, I've said it before, all of us will pass through several shades of heresy on our way to understanding the Bible. And so let's not be afraid to let it inform us and shape our thinking.

54:41But wow, what a treasure we have in the scripture, what promises. This much. Whatever happens and however it plays out, what I'm seeing in scripture is there's so over-the-top good things for humanity. We can hardly even get our minds around, we can't. We can't even, even John can't even describe what's ahead. Being image-bearers of the Almighty God is something so beyond our ability to fathom. And then the universe, I think about what there's a whole universe to be explored to have an, and we need an eternity to know him and to explore his world. And universe, and so much ahead. This world is not about it, about this world we're just passing through, and we've got good things ahead. So let's pray. Heavenly Father, we thank you for these truths. We thank you for our brothers and sisters in Christ. We thank you for the family that you've placed us in. We thank you for this body. And Father, we just pray now that you would be exalted as we leave here and go about the work that each of us that you have called each of us to do this week, the tasks we face, the perplexities, the difficulties, the opportunities, and everything that we face, Father. We just ask you to go with us and be exalted. In Christ's name, amen.